I Hate Mountains Forums

Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Co-op too easy

It's an awesome campaign and also a wonderful trailer! Really professional quality. Thank you very much for creating it.

I play only co-op (mostly on advanced) and noticed that the campaign was very easy. Lots of camping opportunities, lots of ammo, many bombs. Lot of room to maneuver when the tank comes.

I prefer not to play on expert because of the FF being too unforgiving (not to mention the griefers and vote-kicking pricks).

The difficulty on co-op really needs a bit of tweaking.

In ammo rooms ceilings and walls should break out to expose you more. The ending could do with a double tank.

In left 4 dead 2 you'll have more possibilities of course. You could make the ending more interesting by forcing the players to fuel the plane. Not very original, but more challenging.

An idea for the crane: have two handles in different sites of the map and force the players to split up in pairs. Currently you can camp in the room and nothing much happens.

Again thanks for all the hard work.

Merci beaucoup.

3Dnj

Member

Registered: 2010-06-06

Re: Co-op too easy

Wait, what ?!

Play on expert dude.

Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Re: Co-op too easy

Wait, what ?!

Play on expert dude.

That would be ignoring the issue. I already explained why I don't play expert. I think the advanced co-op should be equally challenging as the advanced co-op of other campaigns.

HeadHunter

Member

From: Buffalo, NY

Registered: 2010-06-06

Re: Co-op too easy

So, you're saying that co-op is too easy... but you won't play on the hardest setting because... it's too hard?

That would be like me saying Rock Band is "too easy" on Medium but I don't play on Expert because I keep getting kicked for missing all the orange notes.

Not accidentally shooting your teammates is part of the challenge.  If lower settings are too easy, try it on expert and adapt to the added challenge.

That said, it's good that you at least offered some suggestions.  That's the difference between constructive criticism and simple complaints.

blacksmith

Member

Registered: 2010-06-14

Re: Co-op too easy

So, you're saying that co-op is too easy... but you won't play on the hardest setting because... it's too hard?

That would be like me saying Rock Band is "too easy" on Medium but I don't play on Expert because I keep getting kicked for missing all the orange notes.

Not accidentally shooting your teammates is part of the challenge.  If lower settings are too easy, try it on expert and adapt to the added challenge.

That said, it's good that you at least offered some suggestions.  That's the difference between constructive criticism and simple complaints.

Totally agree.

"I think the advanced co-op should be equally challenging as the advanced co-op of other campaigns."

Well, I personally see no challenge at all on Advanced Mode, whichever the campaing may be.

But to tell you the truth, acctualy I found it to be a somewhat easy campaing on Expert. The first time I played it we just failed 2 times on the 2nd map after the chopper arrives trying to figure out what to do, because we played without hints to make it more interesting, but after that we went untouched up to the finale.

I believe the 2nd map is the easiest and shortest when you know what to do.

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Anvil of Void
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Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Re: Co-op too easy

Well, I personally see no challenge at all on Advanced Mode, whichever the campaing may be.

But I do. I notice the difference. Also note I play with pubs. They can be quite a handicap.

But to tell you the truth, acctualy I found it to be a somewhat easy campaing on Expert.

That's what I mean. The difficulty needs tweaking. Apparently on any level.

Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Re: Co-op too easy

So, you're saying that co-op is too easy... but you won't play on the hardest setting because... it's too hard?

I play on advanced because it's the correct setting for my level of skill.

NykO18

Administrator

From: Montréal, QC

Registered: 2010-05-13

Website

Re: Co-op too easy

* Fixed: [generic] Reduced by 15 to 25% the quantity of items made available by the director

GrossKopf

Member

From: South River, NJ

Registered: 2010-06-07

Website

Re: Co-op too easy

An L4D server is fairly cheap to rent. Rent one, set up the sourcemod with the voteblocker plugin and then set cvars to increase the mob sizes and other settings. I think there's even a mod to remove the first aid kits or turn them into pills.. forget which.

HeadHunter

Member

From: Buffalo, NY

Registered: 2010-06-06

Re: Co-op too easy

I play on advanced because it's the correct setting for my level of skill.

If it's "too easy" on that setting, then it's not the "correct" setting for your level of skill, right?

Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Re: Co-op too easy

I play on advanced because it's the correct setting for my level of skill.

If it's "too easy" on that setting, then it's not the "correct" setting for your level of skill, right?

Your missing the point, but never mind, they fixed it.

NykO18

Administrator

From: Montréal, QC

Registered: 2010-05-13

Website

Re: Co-op too easy

Well yes, we tried.
I can't guarantee it's really going to make it harder because obviously, in the end it's all about what the director decides to spawn regarding of the situation. But with less chances of him to spawn things, I guess it can't make it easier...

Rigel

Member

Registered: 2010-06-13

Re: Co-op too easy

Well yes, we tried.
I can't guarantee it's really going to make it harder because obviously, in the end it's all about what the director decides to spawn regarding of the situation. But with less chances of him to spawn things, I guess it can't make it easier...

I think one of the factors is the open space. What makes the official campaigns tough sometimes (for teams of random players) is the appearance of a tank in a small room, a narrow corridor. This can really challenge a team. That's why I think a double tank at the end (like in Swamp Fever) might be a solution to compensate for the open space.

CosmicD

Member

Registered: 2010-05-23

Re: Co-op too easy

in open areas it would help if the director would actually distrubute smaller mobs coming from each area. NOw when you hear a mob coming it usually come from one side, then 20 seconds later from another one.

NykO18

Administrator

From: Montréal, QC

Registered: 2010-05-13

Website

Re: Co-op too easy

in open areas it would help if the director would actually distrubute smaller mobs coming from each area. NOw when you hear a mob coming it usually come from one side, then 20 seconds later from another one.

Actually, it already does that, it's just that it doesn't always work the way we'd intend it to work. Most of the time, when a horde is spawned, the director will spawn two 10-infected mobs coming from different directions and also attract nearby wanderers. But yeah, sometimes it fails mostly because he can't find room to spawn the hordes around.

With the amount of work we put into the navigation meshes, it often works surprisingly good, especially in areas where you don't expect him to spawn infected, like very vicious places where they can surround you from several sides at the same time and block your retreat. It can happen in the forest for example, when a horde spawns and you're inside the little canyon with all the fallen trees. He tries to spawn infected on both sides and then some of the infected swarm from both cliffs and some others use the fallen trees to their advantage by going from cliff to cliff and falling directly on the survivors. Pretty amazing to see because it's not often you can actually witness a group-AI working this well.

Honestly, valve did a fucking good job with these fellas.
I suspect Turtle Rock Studios are no stranger to this.

CosmicD

Member

Registered: 2010-05-23

Re: Co-op too easy

is that when you can lable some navs up there as OBSCURED ? I try that on the campaign i'm working on as much as possible, often the nav_generate isn't smart about where to place obscured attributes.

NykO18

Administrator

From: Montréal, QC

Registered: 2010-05-13

Website

Re: Co-op too easy

It isn't the nav_generate's goal to place any OBSCURED attribute anyway.
But yeah, the key is the OBSCURED attribute, for a campaign like our own with lots of open space, you can only rely on this.